'cuz i'm polyamorous, so i'd probably keep dating both if they'd both still have me after i had the flip/list o' 5 conversation with each of them separately. every relationship will find its level and all that.

that said, i, too, think the flip is necessary and sustainable, especially for monogamy 'cuz if you ain't got it, some part of you is gonna start looking for it, imho. still, i don't think the flip is mutually exclusive to finding a good, stable, loving match.

when i met my primary partner, we were both relatively freshly out {over a year for him, less for me} of long-term committed relationships with folks we were being monogamous for contrary to our natures and were both adamant that we were not going to have a primary relationship anytime soon, if ever, but boy-howdy, did we ever have that flip for each other. so, we spent a couple of months trying to be "casual" with each other, and then gave up and moved in together. six years and counting, and we both still have that flip for each other. as mercury said, i'd even say it's gotten more intense with more shared time and intimacies, emotional and otherwise.

"if i pass for other than what i am, do you feel safer?" ~ lani ka'ahumanu

dragon knows dragon

It's primal, emotional and physical. That said, the flip is not enough for a relationship alone. Keep looking.

you and i have discussed this a lot over the phone - you know how i feel about it.

i think that you're friend has good intentions, but she might also have this senario/emotion, misguided/twisted up a bit. BUT, maybe her theory works for her, maybe the fear of the flip or caution of the flip has kept her safe or from falling into certain negative relationship patterns etc.

did i already say that this is a great blog? did i thank you yet for posting it?

i say:

the flip is crucial - it's about the chemistry and fire, the pit of your stomach, the solar plexus doing the right amount of processing? it's about your emotions being used or labeled "properly" as my counsleor sharene says.

emotions help us to navigate through life, the waters, the fields and the planes.

i would have to lean towards the person who makes me feel true love, true passion, burning desires and lust. lust can't be over looked or underrated here! especially when it comes to single parenthood.

i think the flip can lead to a deep understanding, compassion, bomb sex, support, companionship, TRUST and reliabilty.

no matter what i've done, i've gone with the flip/instincts. i consider all of my past relationships to be successful, no matter who, what, where or why. it doesn't matter, it's in the past! you and i have the opportunity now to build what we want, get what we want, most importantly, get what we need from a long term stable partner.

i'm too passionate a person (and i think you are too) to settle for the: "this is nice/fuzzy" category. i want nice (and i'm a sucker for fuzz!), don't get me wrong, but i also want romance, fire, strength and thunder. (especially where it counts, dang it!).

can it be cultivated? sure why not. does it change? it can, but ulimately there are techniques and ways to communicate with your partner, to stay in lover mode and not just parenting or even partner mode. i learned about this in my first david deida book.

my 2 cents:

i'm glad that you're dating! you're in the game, testing the waters and finding what works for you.

think about what you've accomplished, you've worked towards opening up your heart chakra to accept love again into your life. this is huge!

you know that i'm doing this too, i want the adventure and i look forward to the success.

you and i will remain on the same page, when it comes to this one!

i'm wishing you: good times, fun dates, the right match, chemistry up the wazoo, kisses and steamy times! hot sex and the phone bill paid!

(i hope you're smiling!).

love,

your friend - christy

the offical asian adventuress!

The flip fades, the other things do not.
The flip in my life has morphed into a smile of contentment- like when my husband brings me coffee in the tent when we're camping. It used to give me a flip when we were first dating and I thought, "who is this man, and is he really so perfect that he would get up in the cold just to make me coffee?"
Well, he turned out to be not quite perfect, but I love him anyways and the person he is makes me smile.

I would always go for the flip...
but, well...I am probably not the best judge of these things.
I am a hopeless romantic though and believe we have soulmates, in "the one", etc.

"If nothing else, life in the suburbs promised that you might go from day to day without finding shit in our hair." ~ David Sedaris

Peg Flandreau West wrote a book called "Risking On Purpose", and in it she suggests that we experience "the flip" as an "early warning sign", but that the trick is to figure out if the Flip is warning us: Danger Ahead OR if the flip is telling us: Exciting Adventure Ahead. Thrill is not always bad, but it can be, and it's our job to notice the Flip and ask ourselves if we are heading into a fun exciting adventure, or a dangerous situation, or a little of both, and make choices accordingly. So I don't totally agree with your friend that the Flip is always bad, but I do think she's right that many of us get the signal wrong, think we're going to have an adventure, and it turns out to be something bad.

On the question of whether or not you can cultivate it, I agree with the other mamas that given the right situation, sure. I do think that those of us who have been in abusive or dramatic relationships often find good, solid, loving, dependable partners boring in some ways, depending upon where we are in our healing from those past relationships. if that resonates with you, maybe it makes sense for you to challenge yourself some to stick with this woman. Your feelings may be more about how you see yourself (deserving or not deserving of someone who treats you well) than about her. I think it's a great sign that you are asking yourself these questions. If I'd have done that earlier in my relationship with DH, I'd have married him much sooner than I did. As it was, I almost lost him forever and wasted 8 years of my life with a guy who gave me the Flip but also really fucked me up.

Good luck. Keep us posted!

Have you been dating this lady for very long?

You can't maintain the flip forever. Most of the time, it's like I've got this really hot roommate that is also my best friend. Like I would totally do him. He's really cute, and totally my type and everything. But sometimes... I've got this cute roomie. And others, I'm sharing space with a sex god. Ebb and flow.

I used to have this drink test. If a man could make me drop my drink just by kissing me, he was THE ONE. Then I figured out maybe I had a little drinking problem. I kid. No, really I figured out that that was a really silly way to judge a person. I do have to be attracted to someone to have a relationship with them. But when you're in for the long haul, there will be periods of time when you just aren't all that interested in everything they do and say, and sometimes you won't be interested in doing them.

Personally, I would not. That fire is an important and vital part of a relationship for me. But yes, the flip can be cultivated over time! I was friends with my husband for a year and a half and never felt the flip, never felt any chemistry at all when we were just friends. He was my friend, he was one male I could feel safe with and depend on. Prior to dating my husband I would rush head-long into 'relationships' with people just based on 'the flip'. didn't last. But because my husband and I were just friends, I shared with him, I learned about him, I opened up to him, I cared about him, I accepted him for who he was, and he did all those things for and with me.

It's funny how 'the flip' for me turned on...About a year into our being friends other people suddenly begin to ask if we liked each other. People who didn't know us, like say we went to a new party together with a group of our friends, total strangers assumed he and I were a couple in the group. In retrospect we were of course giving off all kinds of body language signals that showed our attraction to each other but neither of us allowed ourselves to be conscious of it, because we didn't want to ruin our good friendship. One of our other close friends at the time would always tease us about how our eyes lit up whenever we saw each other.

Anyway more time passed...I was only 24 but the single mother of 2 kids, and I was sorely pissed and tired of going through the pain and drama that was my life at the time. I wanted to find one man who would be good to me. I was tired of choosing and allowing myself to be chosen by men who were not right for me. I wrote up a list of qualities of what I wanted in a life partner, and showed it to all my friends. My plan was to put an ad in the personals section in the paper LOL. Suddenly it hit me...my good friend, my best friend, he had all those qualities and more. That's when I first felt the flip. It was like all of a sudden I could 'see' him as a man, as a sexual creature. Because for me, based on my experience 'man' overwhelmingly meant 'danger', so because I didn't feel danger with him, because I felt safety and kindness with him, it was like he wasn't 'male' to me and therefor safe. My body all along was attracted to him, hence the signals other people saw that made them think we were a couple, but I wouldn't let my head feel it for a long time.

Long story short I tried to hide how I felt but he knew right away. Big dramatic scene of confessing mutual attraction. But we didn't do anything until we ended it with the people we were seeing. We've been together ever since.

So in a way I think your friend is right...but I also think you can learn to change the signs in other people that you respond to, that sexually excite you. You can learn to change what causes the flip. For the longest time I was attracted to men who were not right for me because my sexual expression was perverted by pain, trauma, rape, and abuse. When I was ready to accept and believe that kindness and fidelity and joy was possible for me, and that I deserved to have that in a relationship, I was able to be attracted to someone who exuded those qualities.

my mama blog
What you deny to others will be denied to you, for the plain reason that you are always legislating for yourself; all your words and actions define the world you want to live in. ~ T