About Us & WelcomeHip Mama is a magazine bursting with political Interested in subscribing to the print zine? Click Here If you're new here, please take a moment to click around and check out the options.
|
responsibility vs. family economySubmitted by punkmama on Thu, 07/26/2007 - 4:48pm.
so the post about ethical spending got me thinking, and i am a big nerd, so i wanted to share this with you... method--.82 a load now, that is a reality check for me. at this point, i have to equate every dollar i spend with time out of my home working, time away from vincent. every dollar i can shave off the outgoing money is a dollar i don't have to leave vincent to earn. so when i break it down like this, there is no choice really, purex it is. Bookmark/Search this post with: I wish I had positive feedback, but everytime I save in one area I buy a latte or get a late fee, ect, ectt and blow the savings. I will say use less detergent then they recommend, but soak clothes longer (If you have that setting?) smooches mama! And I checked out my laundry cost sitch. We buy BioKleen powder for our laundry. It's 10.95 for a box that does 50 loads (though we don't use as much as it calls for). Okay, so that puts the cost at .22/load. If you're saying 6 loads per week and 4 weeks in the month, that's about 5.50 a month. I don't think that's too much to pay for a natural, phosphate and chlorine free, fragrance free, biodegradable detergent, but maybe it is. It just seems like it's worth paying the extra 2 bucks every month when it makes such a big difference. We buy ours in bulk at the cooperative grocery down the street, so it actually costs us a bit less and we just put it in the same box every time, so that helps too. So, anyway...the more I was thinking about this: I think the externalities and environmental responsibility is only one aspect of the responsibility. I think I also have a huge responsibility to my son and my family (since I am in charge of buying the groceries and cleaning products right now) to make decisions that reflect my responsibility to their health too. A lot of the cheaper products for laundry, dishwashing, showering/bathing, etc... are filled with really unhealthy chemicals. Those things harm us in the long-run, which to me, makes the choice not as economical. If I save a couple of bucks every month on detergent, but then end up having to take my kid to the doctor for some weird rash, or allergies, or sun sensitivity, or food reaction or headache or depression or whatever else these chemicals have been linked to, then all that money I 'saved', plus more will go into paying for doctors bills and medicines to cover up the problems that have been caused by our use of these chemicals. The way that I see it, often times we are part of the externalities of a product. So, if Laundry Detergent A doesn't care about the externalities on their product before it gets to me, they sure as hell don't care about the externalities on the product after it gets to me (like my kids health). Seventh Generation, BioKleen and companies like them have stated that they do care about these externalities and that they don't want anyone (including me and my family) to be harmed by their product. So, they take out the fragrance and replace it with essential oil. They take out the phosphates and the chlorine and the other irritating and caustic chemicals. I know that it can be expensive. I certainly wouldn't be able to use 7th Gen laundry detergent, though the dishsoap is affordable for us. However, there are less expensive options, like the BioKleen that can work. amongst us economically challenged mamas... My solutions? I use a lot of homemade cleaning products (ie. baking soda and vinegar, etc.) Try to dilute my laundry soap and sometimes pay extra for biodegradable when I am in charge of the purchase. Buy used whenever I can. Use Tupperware type containers (used) instead of foil/plastic wrap/wax paper. Use towels instead of paper towels, which I flat out don't buy anymore. Generally, since I can't afford to responsibly consume, I try to minimize my consumption whenever possible. Which is probably a good mindset anyway:) Simply put another thing about my household. I cannot consume all the fruits and veggies that I want and i want my kids to have if I buy organic. I have tried to do my own haphazard research on the subject, and it seems to be its always quantity that comes out vrs. quality. I don't know anybody that buys organic that gets their daily recommended ten servings a day. Thats what we live on is fruits and vegetables. I have also read countless times that there has been no significant proof that eating organic is in the long run healthier. Alot of pro-organic info is comming from sources that are directly connected to the money being recieved from purchasing organic food. i'd like your resources, please. everything i've read about organic produce in regards to nutrients is the exact opposite of what you just said. here's an article from alternative medicine magazine that tells a different story. http://www.alternativemedicine.com/common/news/store_news.asp?task=store... also, the recommended serving of produce is 5-10 a day. we easily meet that and eat organic , so know you know someone. Its two diffrent camps, KWIM? I can't trust my resources any more than I can trust the pro-organic resources. Thats why I called it haphazard research. Of course your alternative medicine is going to be looking for organic to be better, just as my husbands father who is a chiropractor can pull ten reasons out of his butt why you shouldn't take asprin. My own husband who is going to be a chiropractor eventualy believes in eating commercialy produced fruits and veggies only to strengthen the immune system. Not so sure about that- but I don't discredit his theorey completly. And I personaly believe and have read tons of places that its ten, not five to ten. five to ten was sooo five years ago ( lol) There is also alot of research done about mega doses of certain fruits and or veggies done to treat or prevent illness and disease, therefore the more you eat- the better off ya are. I have read about how there are naturaly oocuring nitrates in some vegatables, so whether its commerciual or organic its hard to eat anything and come out of it unscathed. If you can afford to eat as many fruits and vegatables as you wish and are doing organicaly, by all means it seems like the safest alternative, but seeing as I am already spending 100-120 just on fruits and vegetables a week at the cheapest places possible- I just don't see how it can be done for MY family. Or the price of organic juice- good lord, just kill me now. We do apple from TJ's but when it comes to something I really want like Pomergranate I just don't get it. Ever. I do plan on in the future when I am not living in a house thats being sold out from underneath me having a vast and plentiful garden-organic at that, but until then theres simply not enough documneted proof in my mind that its that much better not to mention there is alot of speculation that 1/3 of what is purchased as organic isn't organic at all. I was in the store for some flowers as a gift. My friend babysat my dogs while I was out of town. I ended up buying the blueberries instead of the flowers (also $13) becuase I figured she might as well be able to eat them. But still, OUTRAGES! you shoulda just gone down the street to ralph's. they have local organic strawberries on special this week for a buck a pack! Swanky! $1 buck organic strawberries? DEAL! I'm there? There's always that guy selling them at the top of Topanga, but I always wonder what they have been sprayed with? KWIM? In San Francisco there is the Rainbow Coop and in Berkeley, they have Berkeley Bowl...I mean, they must have something, some cooperative groceries at least, in LA, right? And how much is a basket of blueberries? You can get a flat of blueberries (organic) at the farmers market here for 6 bucks. A flat is 6 of the bluish/green colored paper boxes. I hate being a *member* of anything. (But I think I will check out one now that you mention it) Still, it is a very designer strore and tres chic. see: http://coopportunity.com/co_opComp/pages/membership/howToJoin.htm does this seem ok? Or am I just cheap? Ours is 45/annually and you don't get that much of a discount so we stopped being members and just shop there. I've never heard of one where you are required to be a member. you can shop there without being a member. my osteopath is just around the corner from that co-op and i shop there whenever i see her. members get special discounts on things, not all things, but lots of things. overall their prices are comparable to whole foods. even their bulk stuff is not much cheaper, if at all. i think whole foods. wild oats and erehwon have effectively out-maneuvered the co-ops in LA so there aren't a lot left, and the ones taht are still around (i also hit up Follow Your Heart in the valley) don't offer prices that are low enough make it worth it the gas to make a special trip. so i hit whatever i'm near - whole foods, trader joe's, farmer's market, whatever. I look for stuff that is local, cause it tends to cost less. I don't buy berries at the grocery store because they are too expensive. If I want berries, I go pick them at Sauvie's island or I buy them at the farmers market (one of the only things there besides mushrooms that you actually save money on). We tend to stay away from artichokes, snow peas, red/yellow peppers, heirloom tomatoes, berries, melons, pineapple, mangoes, wild mushrooms (except for the farmers markets), asparagus, etc... unless it's for a special meal or special occasion. That's part of how we save money on our produce. If you're spending that much on produce, you might check out Organics To You. They have a "Value Bin" for larger families that comes with 17-20 organic, mostly-locally grown fruits and veggies every week and it's delivered to your door. It's 55 dollars. If that's not enough, they have add-ons that you can put for a couple of extra dollars. It would probably save you a lot of money on your weekly produce bill, and offer organic and local foods. Do you have links to these articles saying that organic isn't as good? The book that I recommended for you has amazing sources listed and they are highly trustworthy. I don't believe that all sources for information on this topic are equally untrustworthy. What do you do with your tomatoes? Everything else I've got a plan for. ***the United States is one of only four out of 168 countries studied to not have some form of paid family leave for new moms. We join Swaziland, Papua New Guinea, and Lesotho in not having that policy in place. *** for sauce and salads and stuff like that. I can give you recipes if you want. New Seasons has house made pizza dough for 2 bucks, so I tend to make big batches of sauce and keep it in the freezer for quick dinners. You can also sub things out...so if you don't want tomatoes or carrots, or whatever, you can just let them know that and they will sub something else for you. I'll look into that. We could use more juiceables ***the United States is one of only four out of 168 countries studied to not have some form of paid family leave for new moms. We join Swaziland, Papua New Guinea, and Lesotho in not having that policy in place. *** And we definitely make that with 30-35 bucks a week on produce. I tend to buy cheap things. I stay away from certain fruits/veggies, unless those are going to be the main course. "The Universe Molds Itself To Prove Your Beliefs" in the past two years we havd made such an effort--and continue to--buy healthy and enviormentally safe, but it IS hard, it is expensive, we have three kids now--five people to feed(and three cats). We do kinda alot of laundry--cloth diapers and all--I have to admit that we combat that by not washing clothes that aren't dirty. That sounds funny, but I know alot of people who wash clothes not matter what if they have worn them once--I feel that way about socks and knickers, but not shirts and pants, if it doesn't smell or have marks, it isn't dirty.(and we don't smell bad, btw). We generally use 7th generation for dishsoap and laundry soap, I have oxybrite from trader joes for really bad stuff, it is pretty okay--no phospherates). We try to buy organic, but flat out--we can't always do it. We run two grocery lists, Sunflower Market(our local all natural) and reg grocery store--thats the best we can do right. Yay! That is a huge step and a really amazing thing to do as a family. We also don't wash clothes unless they are dirty/stinky. That saves a lot. "The Universe Molds Itself To Prove Your Beliefs" In some ways it was a hard choice, but once done--was actually pretty easy! I feel like every baby step we can make is a difference and it is healthy for me--the walking and biking! we're the same way with laundry. if it's not stinky or can't be spot cleaned, it isn't dirty. honestly, i prefer day 2 jeans. they're broken in, but not yet saggy.(i know some of you out there know what i'm talking about!) "There are times when silence becomes an accomplice to injustice." -Ayaan Hirsi Ali One thing I know is that my dollar bill is my vote. Fuck the card every four years. That's not what counts. I am politically active with my dollar bill. That is the biggest way that I can change the world I live in. We are struggling right now. Once Sept. gets here and I start getting some financial aid from school, it will be a little bit better, but we've also got to start paying for the kid's daycare at that point, so who knows. **Out of the 100/week, we only buy organic food. Almost all of the produce we buy comes from the west coast of the US. I spend 30-35 dollars a week on produce. Both dh and I have a hefty commitment to buying organic food. We want to do even better things, but this is what we can afford, and it's a way in which we can, as individuals, change the world. **I only wash my hair once a week. I buy expensive shampoo/conditioner (Aubrey's Organics) because I want all of the ingredients in it to be safe. I have found that if I only wash my hair once a week that it ends up being the same cost for me as when I bought the cheaper stuff and washed my hair every day. **We only use 1/2 the detergent called for on the box. That way it lasts twice as long, and we can buy the phosphate free stuff. We do a lot of laundry at my house. We also try to line dry as much as possible in the summer. That saves a lot of money since the dryer is the biggest energy hog in our house. **I keep a huge bowl in the sink and fill it with a tablespoon of dishsoap and hot water in the morning when I wash the dishes. We use that bowl through the whole day long. Using this method, we have gone up to two months with one bottle of 7th gen dishsoap. We shop at a variety of stores for our groceries. We buy our nuts at TJ's because they are cheapest there. We buy bulk soy sauce, olive oil, coconut oil, tahini, pet foods and lotions at the cooperative because they are far cheaper there. Dh and I think that the only way we can change the world is to change the way we live. He bikes 25 miles a day so that he doesn't use petroleum to get to and from work. I try to take the kid on the bike as much as possible...in fact, that's how we got our groceries yesterday and how we met our friend mama at the park. We read labels. When you are writing out the costs, as you have up top, you have not taken into account the externalities. That's something I try to think about when I am buying. So, the purex costs less out of your families pocket. However, it is paid for by another family who is being affected by it's manufacture and use. For example: Lets talk about tires. If a tire manufacturing company is sitting on a river making their tires, there will be externalities. The run-off from the rubber and metal and chemicals gets into the river and floats downstream where it affects vegetation, wildlife and the people who live there. It causes cancers and other illnesses and it kills the fish in the river. The humans can no longer drink the water or swim in the stream. The only way that I can make a real change in this world is to pay for my product WITH IT'S EXTERNALITIES. My son and my family are certainly important to me, and we have found ways to make sacrifices so that we can afford to pay for these externalities. We use less. However, I cannot justify hurting people and their food sources and their environments. "The Universe Molds Itself To Prove Your Beliefs" i was working on a response. but you've said it better than i could. buying a "cheaper' product that had to put in a truck to be shipped half way across teh country to get to your big box store where the workers are treated like shit is not a less expensive product. ever. i think we must think of the larger picture whenever we can. however, saving 20 a month is a big deal, because that really adds up. but i think there are ways to both save that $20 and not crap on the rest world by doing so. i buy local and organic whenever possible for exactly these reasons. plus the food TASTES BETTER! and some (not all) of the eco-friendly products last longer, even when you use less than suggested on the bottles. there are some great ideas here, and really great ways to look at things. thanks! "...we have found ways to make sacrifices so that we can afford to pay for these externalities..." absolutely. i know the sticker shock was really hard for me to wrap my head around at first, but we've come up with ways that we can cut costs elsewhere. it didn't happen for us overnight. it's been a process of learning, experimenting, and reconfiguring. a lot of the sacrificing we've made has just been our convenience. when i weigh my convenience against my footprint, it's a huge motivator for me to find a way to make it work. i've also been on the flip side. it can seem really impossible and overwhelming to make the dietary changes, environmental changes, and ethical changes all at once. my advice would be to make a change or two at a time. if it's something you're committed to doing, you'll find ways to make it work. "There are times when silence becomes an accomplice to injustice." -Ayaan Hirsi Ali If you can't become a vegetarian, non-phosphate using, sustainable living, all organic eating family overnight...make smaller steps to get to your goal.
i definitely do. not in the same context as you do being that i stay home (me staying home is the economical choice for us believe it or not), but in the context that i want to be frugal, definitely. we buy arm & hammer essentials because it doesn't have any junk in it and it cost me about 4-7$ a month depending on coupons, sales, etc. there is no way i can afford seventh generation or bio-kleen or ecos. i try to save in other areas, like i usually use vinegar as a fabric softener and line dry. that saves on fabric sheets and electricity and absorbs a bit of the costs on my more spendy items. i totally hear what your saying. imo, there is nothing more important then the time you have with your kids. not the environment, not a natural home, nada. so, if saving some money on cleaning supplies means you can spend more time with your family, then i say that for sure is the best choice. "There are times when silence becomes an accomplice to injustice." -Ayaan Hirsi Ali and i do use alot of vinegar and baking soda, borax, etc. to save money and ecoterror. but bottom line is, i guess my priority is on my kid, and nothing can trump it. not even the "leaving him a decent planet" thing. sigh. "If moderation is a fault, then indifference is a crime."-Jack Kerouac that is a heavy article, and i hate that you associate my use of purex with POPs, and i am saddened by that association. i don't think there are POPs in the products that i am trying to eliminate, or at least be mindful of. there may be. and my fucking tank top from the gap that i am wearing was probably sewn in malaysia by a nine year old who was sold into slavery by her family. "If moderation is a fault, then indifference is a crime."-Jack Kerouac It's definitely a heavy article, and I want to say more. But Dee is screaming in my ear to go for a walk so I have to make it short. I want to make sure you understand that I'm not trying to dog you for using purex. We all have to make our own decisions about this sort of thing. The reason I posted this on this thread, was in reply to your last comment where you said "i guess my priority is on my kid, and nothing can trump it. not even the "leaving him a decent planet" thing." I thought it might help you to see that it's more than leaving him a decent planet. Putting your time with your child first is important, adding in how that time (and money is spent) is something that I think needs to be added to the equation. We have to remember it's not just our children, but ALL children that suffer when we don't figure the human cost into the equation. More later, many hugs mama. I'm glad you started the thread, it's a good thing, an important thing to discuss, even if it's a hard thing.
it sounds like you are mindful and weigh your decisions carefully. i think most of us are just trying to do our best and choose our priorities carefully. you can't fault anyone for that! "There are times when silence becomes an accomplice to injustice." -Ayaan Hirsi Ali crazy. ecos is dirt-ass cheap here. like a massive 105 load bottle for 12 bucks (i think) i thought it was maybe fishy it was so cheap, but yeah, on the whole its crazy expensive to go the "friendlier" route. wow. that's a lot cheaper! ecos is about 17$ at my health food store. i can't remember how much bi-o-kleen was, but it was up there too. now if they could only make a fragrance free version of the a&h essentials, it'd be the stuff of my dreams! "There are times when silence becomes an accomplice to injustice." -Ayaan Hirsi Ali I get a little neurotic about the grocery bill, and def the laundry stuff. I was just thinking about trying to make my own laundry soap to sell, but I don't know shit about chemistry. And since my DS is allergic to scent that naptha stuff is out for us. I am always trying to scheme ways to earn money, since I don't have job.. it is easy, well as easy as finding washing soda in your area.
Lapina, do you have that link you posted a while back? "The Universe Molds Itself To Prove Your Beliefs" http://www.hipmama.com/node/33600 it has a couple of links to other mama's blogs woith recipes for laundry soapm including a couple from lapina (though not one on laundry soaps). But I have made a decision on a few products. I decided to go phosphate free (in my mind a small price to pay for the convenience of using a washer and dishwasher instead of lye soap in a big tub). Having had a unexplained health anomaly I also chose to go natural for all chemicals on my body. But we still eat grocery store food. I can't quite bring myself to buy meat at the coop (14.00 chicken just breaks my heart) and we can't really go veggie because of Ikes allergies. I suppose we could go on a raw diet..but I really don't want to yet. ha! I just did my footprint at earthday.net and found out I need to work on it. CATEGORY ACRES FOOD 4.9 MOBILITY 0.2 SHELTER 8.9 GOODS/SERVICES 8.4 TOTAL FOOTPRINT 22 But that is hard. The high food is because of the meat, the shelter...we can't move right now, I am working on the goods/services. Too bad it doesn't have any offset categories like "do you recycle?" "Do you buy windpower shares from your electric company?" Etc. Great post Punkamam!
what is wrong with me that i have no problem shelling out for that stuff, but i do with food and other things...selfish. "If moderation is a fault, then indifference is a crime."-Jack Kerouac hey PM....i just wanted to share with you an online resource that has helped me to find a few things in shreveport that i would never thought had existed. for example, i found a farm where i can get free range eggs now for 1.25$ a dozen! that's like less then half of what i would spend at krogers and about 3 times as less as i'd spend in my health food store. maybe it'll give you some good leads! also, i LOVE your farmers market. i used to go every other month because the produce is SOOOO affordable, mostly local, and great quality. i hear you about whole foods. i'm a foodie as well and that place would be dangerous for me! i'm probably lucky we don't have one near by. (however, a trader joes i'd take in a heartbeat!) "There are times when silence becomes an accomplice to injustice." -Ayaan Hirsi Ali ...I do the same thing, and end up thinking -- for only $8 per month, I can send biodegradable soap instead of tested-on-animals icky stuff into the Puget Sound (which is where I'm sure all our water ends up out here). And then I made my coffee/tea at home as often as possible instead of buying $3 soy lattes (even tho from time to time I treat myself here too |
we buy method, but we're definitely not well to do. We're tight paycheck to paycheck (about 13,000 a year) and eat a mostly organic, all vegetarian diet but save money other ways, like me not working so we don't "need" 2 cars (no extra insurance, no extra gas), no $ for childcare, we don't go out to eat, we don't go to the movies, we rent almost of our movies from the library. We don't have car payments, don't buy anything we can't afford (no credit cards), we have no major debt because of this which is nice. We try to conserve electricity, water etc for the cost more than anything. I walk more than drive now. I don't buy new clothes unless I really need them, but usually wear things past when most people would. I buy our non necessities, fun stuff like toys on clearance and I use target brand diapers. I'd rather make cloth and I am going to make some soon I think (out of old flannel sheets so no cost even), to save a little there but well have to hand wash as we are laundromat people.
I am not super schmancy, all organic 100% natural (I had captain crunch today for an afternoon snack), but I do what I feel is the best for us. Our priorities are organic and healthy foods, lessening the chemicals we are exposed to, which is still just baby steps for me but I make sure Bug has the good shampoo and body wash and I don't clean his toys or clothes with toxic cleaners. Honest it's less about the earth and more about what I feel is best for him. I really doubt that washing with purex is going to have horrible effects on your family and I think it's good that you have your priorities where they should be. I was thinking this afternoon, putting my groceries away, about how I grew up & I don't think any of the food we ate was organic & yeah so my mom has cancer but there are multiple factors there, it's not just the food or the teflon that was in some of our pans or the fact that we used Tide. The world is a cesspool of chemicals and we can't control it all. You have to take it all one day at a time, one step at a time, examine where your priorities are and try to live accordingly.
I am swisterland...switzerland? fuck it, I am swiss.