this has been kicking around im my head for weeks, so i am gonna put it out there.
opinions are really just like assholes, everybody has one and alot of times they are full of shit.
many times, i have decided not to reply to a post on the topic of mental health or addiction because those are my areas of expertise...academically, professionally, and of course informed by my personal life. so because of my evolving boundaries, i don't comment. i am not here to school anybody, contrary to what one or two members may accuse me of.
anyway, so i have an educated and experienced opinion on those things. but it is still an opinion, cause for every phd that maintains that addiction is behavioral there is one that thinks it is chemical. see what i mean? my opinion is much more evolved but it is still an opinion.
i think that my opinions are "right", or i wouldn't have them. like etta said, there are varying levels of attachment to how "right" we are. i think my pro-choice opinions are "right", noble even. i just have to satnd for it, because there are alot of people who think my opinions are "wrong", sinful even. they just have to stand for that.
i think there is very little point in debating or arguing about it. don't get me wrong, political protest is another thing entirely. i am the first one waving a sign and marching when LAWS are being fucked with that i think are "right" or "wrong". but i am done protesting people's personal choices. know what i mean? i would no sooner stand outside a church on a random sunday and hold a sign that says "christianity is evil" (although i do think that) because...why? "it's just my opinion, i am entitled to it"?????? no. and i wish the people that stand outside abortion clinics for hours and days and weeks and months and years on end would go home, adopt a child and watch sesame street with them, teach them their abc's, whatever, rather than presuming to tell me what to do. and wasting, in my "opinion" their time shouting at women who have already made a decision. they may or may not think they are "right".
so when you say, "this is just my opinion, so don't fuck with me", that is passive aggressive and just stupid. everything we say is just our opinion. the people that stand outside of funerals of gay people with signs that say "aids kills fags dead" are expressing their opinion, which is repellent to me but so what? my time could be spent counter protesting, offering free mental health services to the grieving family inside, writing to my congress person about changing the laws so that they aren't allowed to turn funerals into demonstrations, the possibliltites are as varies as the responses.
i guess what i am trying to say, to echo strangequark, is that just because there is a discalimer on something does not absolve you. i smoke even though there is a disclamier on the box, i think people that sue the tobacco companies are beyond demented. is ther NO accountability?
critical thinking is not something that we learn, unfortuntately, unless you go to school beyond a certain level. i didn't have a course in critical thinking until grad school, i think that is pretty common. there are better ways to think than others, i do believe that, process wise. i also think that content can be judged using certain criteria...those criteria are different for all. and they are complez, and much more interesting to discuss, in my "opinion", than "opinions" themselves. maybe that is why i am a therapist and not a politician. i think that the how and the why are almost always far more interesting than the what.
but i digress. you know the npr series "this i believe"? i was thinking about undertaking that myself, just to see if i could distill one of my beliefs into something cogent and brief. anybody want to do that with me? we could help each other by discussing our beliefs, but also the how and the why of it, to help us in that fine tuning process? maybe that should be a seperate post.
anyway, everything we say is an opinion, and if my opinion posted in a public forum provokes a reaction to it, then my opinion has taken on a life of it's own. like art, once it is outside the artists head it no longer belongs to the artist, people can see it and may or may not get it, may think they get it but don't get what i meant, well, they still got something, right? and it isn't up to me to say, no, you got my painting/poem/song/opinion WRONG. if you don't like people's reactions to your opinions, asking why it bothers you may be much more productive than launching an attack on the other's stance.
can we talk about that instead? cause the "i know more than you about this and you are wrong" is tiring me out as much as the "i think what i think and you can all fuck off" is wearing me out.
let the wild rumpus begin.
Comments
i like yr thinking here.
i agree that critical thinking about our opinions would help with the "this is my opinion so fuck off..." i just don't have time to think that hard! /LOL
i appreciate what you've
i appreciate what you've written. oddly enough i came to the part in "non-violent communication" on this very topic last night. i'm not really sure how to expound on it, but yes, i get what you're saying.
here's my "quick" reply
vs my "i have sat and thought and gotteN all eloquent on your asses" reply ;)
i LOVE your analogy about the art
i am a very strong LOUD advoctae that art is ALWAYS gotten "Right" by the viewer & that NO ONE not even teh artist can declare there is only one way to interpret a piece
AND if you say "this is ..... racist/sexist/blank ist" THEN IT IS period no excuse, no backdoor esacpe clause
and that is my quick "asshole"
;)
"Do not speak--unless it improves on silence." ~ buddhist saying
"Do not speak--unless it improves on silence." ~ buddhist saying (wow - my email on file was so old - it was from the old hipmama email!)
Oh mama...I wish I wasn't about to run out the door here.
I love everything you've said here, but especially this:
"and if my opinion posted in a public forum provokes a reaction to it, then my opinion has taken on a life of it's own. like art, once it is outside the artists head it no longer belongs to the artist, people can see it and may or may not get it, may think they get it but don't get what i meant, well, they still got something, right? and it isn't up to me to say, no, you got my painting/poem/song/opinion WRONG. if you don't like people's reactions to your opinions, asking why it bothers you may be much more productive than launching an attack on the other's stance."
That is frakin' beautiful.
Sorry that I got outta hand this morning. Sometimes I feel like people/creatures are being kicked and I gotta stick up for them and it's not always the case and I should be more introspective. thank you for the reminder.
"The Universe Molds Itself To Prove Your Beliefs"
"Fundamentally the markswoman aims at herself" DT Suzuki
"cause the 'i know more than you about this and you are wrong'
is tiring me out as much as the 'i think what i think and you can all fuck off' is wearing me out."
Amen on that.
I have to say I have learned a lot, and questioned myself a lot, by people who aren't instantly threatened, offended, or hostile when they disagree with me (or others whose posts I'm reading), but will argue their point or engage in discussion. Those who bring out the personal attacks, the sarcasm, the namecalling, the holier-than-thou "I'm more enlightened than thou", the DEFENSIVENESS? Blarf. (of course, I know I am guilty of those occasionally - probably mostly-only the last).
"anyway, everything we say is an opinion, and if my opinion posted in a public forum provokes a reaction to it, then my opinion has taken on a life of it's own. like art, once it is outside the artists head it no longer belongs to the artist, people can see it and may or may not get it, may think they get it but don't get what i meant, well, they still got something, right? and it isn't up to me to say, no, you got my painting/poem/song/opinion WRONG. if you don't like people's reactions to your opinions, asking why it bothers you may be much more productive than launching an attack on the other's stance."
This is really smart and most HipMamas should read this carefully, more than once if necessary. Sometimes we say something, and someone GOES OFF on the idea / opinion that now "exists outside" us. Then the original poster has to defend their "stance", argue, whatever - instead of LISTENING to what the other person said. Sure, perhaps they are going off on their tangent - but they still "got something", I agree.
Of course I can understand why the original poster might want to be UNDERSTOOD. But there are also reasons to LISTEN. KWIM?
"You know, when in Rome..."
"Macaroni - let me finish! - salad."
If you're sorry - and I don't know what you are referring to -
do you have someone else to apologize to or is punkmama her?
"You know, when in Rome..."
"Macaroni - let me finish! - salad."
well i am one of those "this
well i am one of those "this is my opinion" people. I guess i say that when i feel attacked about my opinion rather then someone trying to discuss/ask why i feel that way. automatically defensive.I put disclaimers up because then if someone is not interested in the topic they do not have to bother reading my post, especially to bring up things that the topic was not even about to just pick apart all of my words or usage of them. if you are not interested in judgin peoples fashion sense then wouldn't it be easier to just not read about judgin people's fashion sense? but it seems here certain people would rather pick apart every single little thing like it is their job to enlighten others.some days i write tons of stuff and actually post nothing because i want to say one thing and don't want to have to deal with people bringing up stuff that isn't even what i wanted to talk about. Now i understand this if its a seriously erroneous statement or would honestly hurt another members feeling just because i didn't think but a lot of the times this is just not the case.(it has been the case but not as often as not)I also think that I tend to get to the point of "this is what i think so fuck off" because it keeps going and going and going. for instance if i post something you find offensive or hurtful, fine say that, but don't keep going for 50 comments and saying the same thing around and around because it isn't going to change my mind the 50th time if it didn't the first.. speak your peace and let it go sort of is my thinking.if i hurt someone i will apologize but i don't need someone to repeatedly say it over and over. does that make sense?
Jessica
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind~~Dr.Seuss
Jessica
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind~~Dr.Seuss
very well put. i admit i do
very well put. i admit i do get defensive instead of listening but it is hard when you feel attacked, then i feel like if i don't defend my opinion/statement whatever i feel like my whole point was lost. you've given me something to think about for sure.
Jessica
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind~~Dr.Seuss
Jessica
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind~~Dr.Seuss
God knows
I have responded to a perceived "attack" knee-jerk instead of LISTENING to what the person is really commenting on - which may not be what I was saying at all. What I've found to work is to carefully disentangle myself from what the person is responding to (if in fact it doesn't represent me) and, if necessary, clarify my opinion. I've also had success by showing curiosity in what they ARE saying or what they ARE responding to - particularly if it is something I don't understand or hadn't thought about. I have come away better educated when I do so.
I used to get on the ass-end of a lot at HipMama when I first joined and now I've found a pretty good groove, or at least it works for me most the time.
"You know, when in Rome..."
"Macaroni - let me finish! - salad."
I've thought a lot about what an opinion is
and I think you do a good job getting at the issue. I wish so much that I was a clever, deeply critical, comparative and independent thinker with a sophisticated grasp of language, etimology, and phsychology. Alas, the truth is, like you said, I never really learned how to think critically. I'm a big know-it-all, but that's different, and it actually makes real thinking harder!. I love HM because there are so many smart, well-thought-out and varied essays on so many great topics. It is a bit like going to a art gallery, I pause in front of some, and pass over others, but all together, it makes for a great show. And like all good art, I've learned a great deal about myself reading these posts, even if my own writing and "opinions" are lagging behind!
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