anyway...what I said was if you go to the npr website and click on this I believe and then go to the for educators section you can download a whole pdf file on how to teach children (or anyone) how to write a personal philosophy. It's very cool.

I will be doing it with my students durig the 4th quarter of the school year.

I think I said it better yesterday but now I am pressed for time.

"No matter how cynical you get it's impossible to keep up," Jane Wagner

if all subject matter was equal, this would make sense. But it isn't. Your philosiphical meanderings are someone else's daily toil and those same meanderings can be a deadly blow.

* I blame men *

Amen to most of what you say here. I don't think the "well that's my opinion and if you don't like it f**k off" mentality is doing anyone any good. I would also go so far as to say that knee jerk reactions IN GENERAL are counterproductive. I often see something on HM or irl that I will interpret as inocuous or amusing and someone else will be really offended by it or vice versa, which gives me pause because I'm left thinking "I didn't see it that way AT ALL". When you're trying to put something out there that you think is kind of light-hearted or humorous, or at least harmless and someone comes at you like you're a total asshole I think it's only natural to get defensive and react in kind. That doesn't make it right, but it's hard not to do and it becomes this viscious cycle.
I want to believe that I speak not only for myself but for most of the hipmamas when I say that it's never my intention to offend and I would feel really badly if something I said hurt another member. I also don't like the feeling that I need to walk on eggshells and that I have to try to anticipate the ways in which something I write could be misinterpreted or found offensive.
To illustrate my point, you said above that you think chrisianity is evil. I'm sure that offends some mamas here (not me). But you're right- you're not out there seeking out christians to let them know you think their faith is screwed up. Does that mean that someone here can't read what you wrote above and take offense? Of course not, but in my perfect little world they would say something like, "hey I'm a christian or my family is christian, etc. and I strongly disagree with you" or "I think you're really misinformed" and you'd probably disagree with them and we could have a discussion. However, more often than not what you get is something along the lines of, "That is some hateful ignorant sh*t! What if I said that athiesm (or whatever...) is evil? How would you like it?" And so starts the knee-jerking. It kind of sounds like I'm just re-iterating what you already wrote, more eloquently than I have here, but that's my $0.02.

ok, thats interesting, but here at HM I tend to add disclaimers because I get sick of being attacked. I say my kid is great because xyz, out of maternal pride and i get to hear about how I am putting down kids that aren't the same? That's why. Because I constantly feel like I have to overexplain everything and tangent to cover everything. I am fine with people disagreeing with my opinion, but when people go into attack mode it's ridiculous.
And I don't say "I know it's racist,but...". I say things like "I am only talking about my decision for my kid, not anyone elses" because I have gotten some pretty extreme reactions about what I do or don't do when I don't add the stupid disclaimer. Like with TV - I can say "we don't watch tv because we don't think it's good for our family" and I get responses like I said "No one should ever watch tv ever it is sick and unwholesome and you are all sheep".
SO I agree that adding a disclaimer isn't absolution, I agree that I may need to look at my so called issues, but I do think that people here can go a bit overboard on some of this stuff and sometimes it is easier to add a stupid disclaimer that I am not trying to force others to conform to my beliefs lest I be in a position to either defend my position or ignore the negative and attacky posts and then somehow look like I feel subtly guilty and wrong and therefor am hiding out and not responding.
It goes too far. Some people want to be "called on their shit" all the time. It's not what I am here for, though some of it is fine or happens or whatever. But I don't like being torn apart, word by word for no apparent reason. Especially when I am posting about liking ice cream or thinking my son is cute.

sometimes I think I put opinions out there like a personal "thought balloon" to the universe - as in - "here's my thought, what kind of person does that make me look like to the world?" - or - "what will be reflected back at me when I put this out there?" - and - "what kind of person do I have to be to have this kind of thought?" And though I generally really believe in my opinions - it wouldn't be a very good experiment otherwise!- I find I've also let go of a lot of my "thought balloons" over the years. And, yes, I hate quotation marks, but I haven't "figured" out how to not use them when trying to make my "typing" "voice" come across the right way. (sorry).

"if you don't like people's reactions to your opinions, asking why it bothers you may be much more productive than launching an attack on the other's stance." this is exactly what I think.

I have some pretty 'out there' opinions, and I own up to it. If people don't think like I do, then that is their perogative. when people state an opinion that is different than my own, i don't feel defensive, i feel curious. I want to know how they arrived at that opinion,how they came to believe what they do. I'm a process person; how and why things come about is far more interesting to me than what. But you are right; most people have not really examined why/what they believe. I reflexively deconstruct whatever I see/hear/read. I had to dismantle a lot of my primary programming to see the world as I do today and in doing that I got rid of my defensiveness, because I realized that the simple fact that my opinion exists alongside a myriad of others and none of us is really able to point at the other and say, definitively 'see, b/c you aren't thinking/behaving how I think you should be, (insert incident here) happened. SEE? I'M RIGHT!'. There are just too many variables in life to wield definitive statements like weapons at people who don't fit into how you see the world. Disagreeing with someone isn't attacking them.But i've noticed that a vast majority of people don't get that. Some people are really, really resistant to using critical analysis of their own thoughts. Even though it is a vital skill,and IMHO necessary for any sort of personal growth to occur, people fight it tooth and nail. I do get very annoyed/angry/saddened by people who go 'oh, you're just thinking too much' when confronted with a particular analysis of something. To me that just sounds like an admonition to stick your head in the sand like all the other good little ostriches.Because there really ISN'T such a thing as 'overanalyzing' something because there are ALWAYS more variables involved in EVERYTHING. There are infinite interpretations of reality;we all don't have to look at every single one but there's nothing wrong with trying to go at things from as many angles as you can.
I listen to "this I believe" and i have enjoyed it a great deal. There should be a blog where we all talk about our beliefs and how we arrived there...sounds very interesting..start it up!

I like what you said and how you said it. That is the human truth, everyone needs to have compassion to realize that others are just as important as you are. We all have our own perspective and our own opinions. There's no sense in dispairaging someone else's opinion, we can all just experience each other's and teach each other different angles of looking at things but... it's not like it's this game to "win" people over to your opinion and leave theirs behind. at least, there's no point in having anger about the differences. we are all complete selves bringing our thoughts to the table, and they're valid. I just always read people here as "oh that's their perspective", not "oh that's the way it's supposed to be".
Examining why and how you've come to a belief is very interesting discussion, rather than stating your position challengingly like a robot all the time.
~~~
Huge Wonder parody kids shirts
Rockosaurus Rex kids' rock

and I think you do a good job getting at the issue. I wish so much that I was a clever, deeply critical, comparative and independent thinker with a sophisticated grasp of language, etimology, and phsychology. Alas, the truth is, like you said, I never really learned how to think critically. I'm a big know-it-all, but that's different, and it actually makes real thinking harder!. I love HM because there are so many smart, well-thought-out and varied essays on so many great topics. It is a bit like going to a art gallery, I pause in front of some, and pass over others, but all together, it makes for a great show. And like all good art, I've learned a great deal about myself reading these posts, even if my own writing and "opinions" are lagging behind!

i'm with you mostly. one thing i can differ with you on, is the disclaimer "i think what i think .... " because sometimes people who will attack you under the guise of "discussing" or my hipmama favorite "asking for clarification," aka "fishing for ammo." sometimes it's helpful to come right out and say, "i am comfortable with this relatively fluid opinion for now, so comments about how wrong it is are likely to fly right by me... for now."

if you really want to get through to someone, really about anything, the best way to do that is to talk about your personal experience in a way that person can relate to. coming down on them with a bulleted list of why their opinion is wrong, how wrong they are to have such an opinion, and how mean they are toward people who feel differently, just by having said opinion, well, i can't think of a faster way to alienate someone and thereby make them impervious to anything you have to say. and that's not necessarily what happens here at hipmama, but it does happen, and it's not about education or sharing or communication. it's about bullying and feeling righteously indignant. and yeah, sometimes it does happen on hipmama, which is when i fall into the "i thought WE were better than this trap. of course we're not, we're human like everyone else.

so, sometimes i post with the attitude of "this is what i think, and if anyone feels differently, i am ok with that." seems like a pretty generic, benign attitude to have, but have it in the company of someone who actually does feel differently, and fuck if you don't get a fight. in fact, i don't think i know anyone who doesn't believe themselves to hold that self same attitude, till they are faced with someone who disagrees. then all of a sudden their serenity flies out the window and they're suddenly right, without ever noticing the transition. it's a rare person who is truly detached from their own rightness. i hear shit like "you have a lot of strong opinions about what people should say or..." shit like that. but i really don't. what i have is a strong comfort level with, not my opinion and how "right" it is, but with my own ability to recognize when my opinion no longer fits the situation, when it's not in accord with reality or when it impedes a relationship i value. and no amount of schooling by someone else will ever teach me that, it comes from me. the reality is, and i think it applies to everyone, i can't learn anything till i'm ready to learn it. furthermore, once i am ready to learn a thing, it's pretty much unstoppable. so, by that logic it's really impossible for anyone else to school me into believing an opinion i have held is wrong.

and yeah, there is a whole lot of schooling here at hipmama. it's pretty disrespectful by definition. once you place yourself in a position of schooling someone, you're laying claim to a higher degree of intelligence or enlightenment, so it's presumptuous as well as rude and counterproductive. ah but no.... the F word is what's rude... sorry, my opinion's getting in the way again.

learning is always a slow process, like evolution. i think at all the things i am trying to learn, and how excruciatingly slow it is, and i wonder how it is that i can expect anyone to learn in the amount of time it takes me to tell them my version of reality.

and teaching, by definition, requires acceptance and nurturing. if you hate a person for where they are, you will never help them to evolve to somewhere else. so you see, this "schooling" is not at all about teaching. it's about being a douchebag, with no goal in mind. just being out and out indignant for the sake of it. yawn. i don't even read those posts anymore, whether they're directed at me or not.

was that what you were asking about?

“They think I do not know a buttload of crap about the Gospel, but I do!�

well i am one of those "this is my opinion" people. I guess i say that when i feel attacked about my opinion rather then someone trying to discuss/ask why i feel that way. automatically defensive.I put disclaimers up because then if someone is not interested in the topic they do not have to bother reading my post, especially to bring up things that the topic was not even about to just pick apart all of my words or usage of them. if you are not interested in judgin peoples fashion sense then wouldn't it be easier to just not read about judgin people's fashion sense? but it seems here certain people would rather pick apart every single little thing like it is their job to enlighten others.some days i write tons of stuff and actually post nothing because i want to say one thing and don't want to have to deal with people bringing up stuff that isn't even what i wanted to talk about. Now i understand this if its a seriously erroneous statement or would honestly hurt another members feeling just because i didn't think but a lot of the times this is just not the case.(it has been the case but not as often as not)I also think that I tend to get to the point of "this is what i think so fuck off" because it keeps going and going and going. for instance if i post something you find offensive or hurtful, fine say that, but don't keep going for 50 comments and saying the same thing around and around because it isn't going to change my mind the 50th time if it didn't the first.. speak your peace and let it go sort of is my thinking.if i hurt someone i will apologize but i don't need someone to repeatedly say it over and over. does that make sense?

Jessica
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind~~Dr.Seuss

is tiring me out as much as the 'i think what i think and you can all fuck off' is wearing me out."

Amen on that.

I have to say I have learned a lot, and questioned myself a lot, by people who aren't instantly threatened, offended, or hostile when they disagree with me (or others whose posts I'm reading), but will argue their point or engage in discussion. Those who bring out the personal attacks, the sarcasm, the namecalling, the holier-than-thou "I'm more enlightened than thou", the DEFENSIVENESS? Blarf. (of course, I know I am guilty of those occasionally - probably mostly-only the last).

"anyway, everything we say is an opinion, and if my opinion posted in a public forum provokes a reaction to it, then my opinion has taken on a life of it's own. like art, once it is outside the artists head it no longer belongs to the artist, people can see it and may or may not get it, may think they get it but don't get what i meant, well, they still got something, right? and it isn't up to me to say, no, you got my painting/poem/song/opinion WRONG. if you don't like people's reactions to your opinions, asking why it bothers you may be much more productive than launching an attack on the other's stance."

This is really smart and most HipMamas should read this carefully, more than once if necessary. Sometimes we say something, and someone GOES OFF on the idea / opinion that now "exists outside" us. Then the original poster has to defend their "stance", argue, whatever - instead of LISTENING to what the other person said. Sure, perhaps they are going off on their tangent - but they still "got something", I agree.

Of course I can understand why the original poster might want to be UNDERSTOOD. But there are also reasons to LISTEN. KWIM?

"You know, when in Rome..."

I love everything you've said here, but especially this:
"and if my opinion posted in a public forum provokes a reaction to it, then my opinion has taken on a life of it's own. like art, once it is outside the artists head it no longer belongs to the artist, people can see it and may or may not get it, may think they get it but don't get what i meant, well, they still got something, right? and it isn't up to me to say, no, you got my painting/poem/song/opinion WRONG. if you don't like people's reactions to your opinions, asking why it bothers you may be much more productive than launching an attack on the other's stance."

That is frakin' beautiful.
Sorry that I got outta hand this morning. Sometimes I feel like people/creatures are being kicked and I gotta stick up for them and it's not always the case and I should be more introspective. thank you for the reminder.

"The Universe Molds Itself To Prove Your Beliefs"

vs my "i have sat and thought and gotteN all eloquent on your asses" reply

i LOVE your analogy about the art
i am a very strong LOUD advoctae that art is ALWAYS gotten "Right" by the viewer & that NO ONE not even teh artist can declare there is only one way to interpret a piece

AND if you say "this is ..... racist/sexist/blank ist" THEN IT IS period no excuse, no backdoor esacpe clause

and that is my quick "asshole"

"Do not speak--unless it improves on silence." ~ buddhist saying

i appreciate what you've written. oddly enough i came to the part in "non-violent communication" on this very topic last night. i'm not really sure how to expound on it, but yes, i get what you're saying.

i agree that critical thinking about our opinions would help with the "this is my opinion so fuck off..." i just don't have time to think that hard! /LOL