congrats punkmama & papa.

marriage is hard and you are right, many people have unrealistic expectations (including myself). I know that the longer mr sauce and I are together the more challanges but when we deal with the shit the love gets stronger. I'm too tired to think about this right now.

enjoy the sushi.

* I blame men *

i'm not married, but i reckon my relationship has survived 15 years (yikes!) for many of the reasons you've outlined. good on ya both. and you breed really well, too.

happy anniversary!! after almost 12 years of marriage and 15 yrs with the same guy, i have to say i both agree and disagree. i absolutely agree that marriage is the marathon, not the sprint, and that you have to be ready for the good, the bad, and the ugly. and you have to be ready and expect to change and to let your partner change. i am definitely no longer the naive 22 yr old who said "I do", nor is he. yet i think it is precisely b/c we have grown and changed that we can still stand each other after all of this time!!!

i disagree though that only love for one's children is/should be unconditional. i love DH unconditionally - and trust me i am FAR from a saint nor a doormat. over the years our love has changed from one with objective justifications to one that just is. i can tell you many great things about him, but none of them explain why i love him. i just do, and i always will love him no matter what. BUT, loving someone and wanting to share your life with them are quite different to me. my love does NOT give DH license to be a serious asshole nor treat me badly with no ramifications. if he was/did, i would leave, as would he. i think it is very possible to love someone and still need to divorce them/not be with them.

anyway, congrats again on your anniversary and many happy returns! [for us years #3 and #7 were REALLY REALLY hard ones, but its just been getting better and better since ]

i agree on all counts. i think that the bad patches that last a while usually stem from our own baggage that we brought in. and conditions are real, and totally valid and healthy. i know that my love for my mister is completely conditional. there are some conditions under which it would stop completely, the most obvious of which would be abuse of me or my child.

i don't expect my relationship to continue till death. i don't care one way or another how long it lasts, that's not my objective.

and i have to agree that's beautuful picture. you look so peaceful.

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naïve or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.� Anaïs Nin

"i think that people have very unrealistic expectations of marriage, and i think the main one is unconditional love or regard."

Yeah. No shit. I agree people have unrealistic expectations; hence divorce and broken families. Fortunately people are resiliant; we can survive broken families, survive divorce, live on, and thrive.

All the same, I wish I'd been better prepared for marriage. One thing in my (and my husband's) favor is our parents are still together. HOWEVER I don't know how well they let us in on the secret of how hard it is. My mom, for one, likes to minimize her struggles, hide them. Pretend things are always "OK". It hasn't helped me in a model for what you need in a marriage: self-respect, strength, differentiation, and an openness to change.

Unconditional love, my ass. In a young marriage (like yours or mine), or even some with some longevity, there are couples who haven't truly been "tested". (IMNSHO) These are the people who speak of unconditional love, or love as if it's a feeling. At first love is that way. Partnership is a CHOICE though, and sometimes the feelings, the sex, the rewards, aren't there for a while. If you've been tested, you really KNOW it. You know that when it comes down to it, it's a choice - should I stay, or should I go? It's a really goddamned hard choice, or it has been for me. I am glad we've prevailed, hopefull we will continue to, but also aware that really, a lifetime union between two people is more fragile than it sometimes seems.

Those of us who have been tested and did not break up know that sometimes sacrifice and belly-crawling humility are involved. Does that make me stronger or weaker that each time I chose to stay and to humble myself, than to be prideful and leave? Only *I* can tell you. No one can decide that from the outside looking in.

Marriage has been hell sometimes. So what? I truly believe anything worth having is worth fighting for; anything truly valuable comes at a price. The rewards of marriage are many. Not least of which, for ME anyway, is to realize we truly are alone. We can choose to live in parallel and share ourselves as intimately as we can. We can choose stillness and rest, hard work and triumph, side-by-side with a human as flawed as we are. It's a great priviledge and a very difficult endeavor at times.

Congrats, C. - and I hope you have a lovely date!

"You know, when in Rome..."

yeah, DH & I hit 3 october 3rd and it has seriously not been all happiness and hot sex. We have had more than enough issues between us for 3 years, and at the most stressful, horrible, angry the fact that we are legally bound, and kinda poor really does keep us from storming out on the other. That sounds like a downer, to be honest, we love each other dearly and the past three years have had way more good times than bad.
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