Guys scare the shit out of me. Is this normal?

I was at the bar today, just stopping by, and was discussing the Blood Alcohol content that I would have after drinking two beers with a guy that I know, but not that well. He looks at me, and guesses my weight, and stands up to... I dunno, but I put up my hands and tell him "don't touch me." He freaks out, saying I'm unfair, etc, He was just seeing how tall I was compared to him, etc. and so on. But I realized at some point or another that, aside from being a somewhat aggressive female, esp. as far as guys go, I am just plain defensive, and physically so, around guys. Is this weird? I'm a little bit of a man hater, but in a way that I make fun of it. Yeah, I deplore the state of patriarchy in which we exist, and I think it's unhealthy, but as far as feminism goes, I get angry when We Can't All Just Get Along. That is, logically, I think it's ridiculous to exclude people because you're trying to speak up about being excluded in the past. But I've noticed... I really just am scared of guys. I think more than anything, this surprised me. I guess I worry about ending up in bed with a guy I hate, which used to happen with some frequency before I was a mom.
I suppose that a few statements that I've made here may open a can of worms, or two....so please note that I haven't thought this out, this isn't a Commentary, but I am wondering: is it weird that I have this instinct to physically fight off guys that I casually interact with? Maybe it's a response to the fact that I used to be promiscuous and now I want to avoid that at all costs? I dunno, but it's weird how much I physically fight with the men in my life, even if it comes from friendship-I generally think the world would be a better place if we all let off some steam and wrestled a bit. I guess this is a pretty personal post, but if you have any thoughts, I'd like to hear them... Just getting it out, you know? Even if I don't know what 'it' is. Smile

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well, in a culture

where so many of us are attacked and killed by so many of them, i wouldn't say it's weird at all. i think a lot of us would do well to asknowledge our own fear in this way. it doesn't mean you're hating them or consicously think that they will hurt you, but that your defenses are up. and again i think in our culture maybe our defenses should be up a lot of the time. you didn't know him, he didn't earn your trust, he's not allowed to touch you, no matter how benign he may think it is. he doesn't decide when it's benign, you do. and it doesn't make you less of a woman or more fearful that you didn't let him. you asserted your boundaries. i would totally prefer that to you letting yourself be touched when you're not comfortable with it.

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come out

WORD

he's not allowed to touch you, no matter how benign he may think it is.

Yep!

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I'm not sure what "normal" is

Do you have issues with women touching you too, or is it just purely men? If a woman tries to hug you, do you embrace that, or do you kind of just stand there while she hugs you?
The reason I am asking is because I know many people who were sexually abused when they were younger. It seems that they will swing one of two ways: either they long to be touched all of the time, or they abhor being touched at all. I just wanted to add this, just because if you do have something like this in your history, it is "normal", but it may help you to be healthier if you look into some counseling for it.
That aside, I think it's really healthy to be touched, but everyone is different. There are all kinds of touching that are not intimate, but they still offer a greater energy exchange than words can offer. If you can allow yourself to be open to non-intimate touching, I think it helps alleviate stress, and just plain helps people to be more calm.
I also think that you have to trust your intuition. If you feel like something is wrong with a certain person, you probably don't want that person to touch you. The issue is whether or not your intuition is making you feel wrong about it, or whether past baggage is.
My friend has severe issues with being touched by women or men, but it was definitely much stronger with men. She got some referrals from other female friends for a male massage therapist. It took all that she had to go and get the massage, but she loved it. She makes a point of going at least once a month to see him. I think that has helped her a lot, esp. with trust issues and recognizing that each person is different, regardless of gender. I think that this is a really good idea, as long as you don't have past abuse issues.
"I am not dead yet! I can still call forth a piece of soul and set it down in color, fixed forever." Keri Hulme

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"Fundamentally the markswoman aims at herself" DT Suzuki

it's a good point..

I'm not comfortable being touched at all, I hate hugs from strangers. But it is a particularly violent thing with men, I just have more of a negative precedent that's been set there.

yah

It is reasonable to be wary of men, seeing as to how they do what, 99% of the raping and murdering of women and children. and while I don't feel that most men would attack and rape a woman they don't know, I do feel that most men do not understand that unwanted sex with a woman they are married to, dating, or even casual friends with is rape.

Also, men tend to misinterpret body signals, like they take a smile for an invitation or friendly behavior for flirtation. I learned the hard way to be very careful of my body language around men. Unfortunately it is on us women to watch them as much as possible in this regard, because they overwhelmingly won't watch or monitor themselves. They hold us responsible for and blame us for their own reactions to us...if they find us attractive then they feel we are responsible for inciting that response in them. Once I understood that this is a deeply ingrained cultural belief in most cultures that most men themselves feel, I no longer felt bad for watching my back around them and being very clear, vocal if need be, about them respecting my body space.

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I just wanted to add here

that while men do commit a large percentage of sexual crimes, I have both male and female friends who were molested by women. When I worked in the DV women's shelter, I would recieve a call at least once a month by a man who had been raped by a woman (most people scoff at this, wondering how it is possible, which makes the crime even more demeaning). It is also not uncommon for a woman to be raped by another woman. However, there are not very many resources out there for men who are sexually violated, especially when the agressor is a woman. Because of the lack of resources, these cases do not achieve as clear a statistical picture as those in which males act as agressors.
"I am not dead yet! I can still call forth a piece of soul and set it down in color, fixed forever." Keri Hulme

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"Fundamentally the markswoman aims at herself" DT Suzuki

well yeah,

but who can you really trust? not that many when it comes down to it....sad to say. i think it's totally fine to say what you need to say even if there is no smile. neutral is good, but even if you look pissed, then whatever, maybe your response is right on. go with your gut.

I don't trust a lot of men.

I don't trust a lot of men. Its not that I neccesarily think they are bad people, its that at 30 years old I have seen enough go down to want to get to know someone a bit before I trust them. A lot of men have issues with women who have clear boundries that they will assertively protect. Most men really aren't used to that because most women are raised that it isn't polite or nice to be assertive so they go along with stuff they aren't comfortable with to protect men's feelings. When you have been in situations with men where your boundries have been crossed even if the men didn't know that they were even crossing them, resentment and mistrust can build up which maybe might lead to some aggressive feelings.

There is nothing wrong with telling anyone at anytime not to touch you. If the person reacts badly it is on them, not you. Learning to be assertive (not aggressive) takes work but is worth doing. Once you feel confident in your ability to make yourself be heard, have your boundries respected without getting aggresive you can pretty much be comfortable in most situations.

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* I'm all fight and no flight *

brave post.

I used to be that way a bit. Now I have my cool back. I tell them to back off, but I'm laughing when I do it. This gets the point across, helps them save face, and ultimately usually avoids any real ugliness. If a guy gets aggressive or weird (they can, when they've been drinking) I usually wander off as quickly as I can.

I try to remember that a lot of guys are just insecure / have something to prove and while this doesn't excuse shitty behavior, at least it helps me to see the scared / nasty little boy inside. If you're not careful getting out of these awkward situations quickly they will either A. get aggressive, or B. (worse) bore the shit out of you explaining how they didn't mean the comment "in that way" or were just guessing your height or whatever. I just move the conversation along as quickly as possible. It works.

I am also no longer "scared" of my promiscuity or bad choices and I no longer feel I am "obligated" to give a guy anything. That helps.

~~~~~
outta control crafty

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"Macaroni - let me finish! - salad."

I have grown up, but have a bit to go.

I guess I just have to remember that if it feels like shitty behavior to me, then I do have the right to call someone out on it, if it's in a friendly way. I am usually smiling as well, but I think that I have not yet "got my cool back." But at least I'm acknowledging the discomfort/ackwardness as it comes up, and I guess this is something I've learned. I do try to move on quickly, but it just struck me how easy it is to raise my defenses, to where my body physically gets involved: my fists are out within seconds if you are male, and have made me feel vulnerable. huh. what a weird world we live in. The emotion really is fear, in these situations-even if I'm not being 'harassed.' So weird. Good point about being afraid of my bad choices, though. I do have a bit to go before I can be sure that I won't make them again.

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